Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 8:06:38 -0600
From: pduggan
Subject: Dead or Alive
The will of the reprobate are always dead.
The will of the elect become alive.
Is there a common operation of the Spirit towards those in the church which makes them alive while still remaining dead?
Paul
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 14:30:26 -0000
From: “garver”
Subject: Dead or Alive
Well, if you push the dead-alive thing too far — so that the elect and reprobate never share any actual operations of the Spirit — you end up having NO “common operations” of the Spirit and that too would run afoul of the WCF.
joel
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 8:43:39 -0600
From: pduggan
Subject: Dead or Alive
Clearly that would. And so, Saul can receive an operation of the Spirit to enable him to prohpesy and the goats can cast out demons, and everyone can say “Jesus is Lord” by the Spirit. But the WCF teaches that those who do so have dead wills, does it not? And Jesus teaches he “never knew them”.
Paul
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 08:54:43 -0600
From: Mark Horne
Subject: Dead or Alive
Jesus only “never knew” the people in Israel who said good things about his preaching but never became his disciples. This passage simply does not apply to any of the issues to which it has been applied. Visitors outside the Church who have never been baptized but who like a preacher should hear about this warning.
Mark
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a word from the godfather
“I just thought the juxtaposition of the Keller quotes with Jordan’s/Leithart’s was interesting and worthy of discussion — especially since some sort of synthesis seems likely. It’s been at the back of my mind as a point for discussion for years.” — Rich Lusk
“Another one of my favorite guys has also taken down some of his stuff and has retired from the blogosphere because it is so, you know, mean. Translated from the FV, that means that they’ve been uncovered and they need to lie low until the dust settles and institutional inertia can take effect. Hiding what you really are behind protestations that others are breaking the 9th? How precious is that? Evidently, the 9th means exactly what they say it means — nothing more and nothing less. Truth hurts. Maybe if the FV [men] worried more about the true gospel and less about the color of their gowns, sashes and stoles, we wouldn’t be where we are now.” — Eileen
“Generally one doesn’t dog the Westminster Assembly as ‘weak’ and get along well in Presby circles. . . . Now if we could just get everybody to read the latest issue of Credenda.” — DP Cassidy
a well-documented history
book review
“Well, the inevitable finally happened with content from the 2005 Biblical Horizons list recently made public on an anonymous Yahoo blog. I don’t know how much material from Biblical Horizons will make its way to the web, but what has come out thus far has proven embarrassing to some, including a dear friend within my own church.” — David Bayly
“Yet, not everyone has seen the FV for what it is. Some FV advocates have protested that there is no difference between what they promote and Westminsterian Calvinism. Others have asserted, absurdly, that there is no ‘FV movement.’ The BH list shows those things to be false, and, in that, it is useful. One would hope that TE’s Wilkins, Meyers and Leithart made these emails available to the various committees charged with examining their views.” — Ken Pierce
“Yet, not everyone has seen the FV for what it is. Some FV advocates have protested that there is no difference between what they promote and Westminsterian Calvinism. Others have asserted, absurdly, that there is no ‘FV movement.’ The BH list shows those things to be false, and, in that, it is useful. One would hope that TE’s Wilkins, Meyers and Leithart made these emails available to the various committees charged with examining their views.” — Ken Pierce
“MLK was a pretty sorry specimen of humanity. . . As a person, MLK was trash and he’s in hell.” — James B. Jordan
helpful quotes
“. . . nothing you reprinted here differs from what I have said for 35+ years.” — James B. Jordan
“I — and since BH is me, we. . .”
— James B. Jordan
“It shows us many, many things about the FV that the critics have been saying all along, and Jordan agrees.” — Pastor Lane Keister
“. . . the post above I think is overstated, rhetorically unhelpful, historically misguided and wrong. In short, I disagree. . .” — Douglas Wilson
“Jim’s statement is misleading and wrong, and I wish he would retract it.” — Douglas Wilson
“I didn’t say ‘recant’ . . . but rather ‘retract,’ which is what somebody should do with any mistake, whether 30 years old or not.” — Douglas Wilson
“This is what happens when a guy who knows just enough to be dangerous admits the truth, and a guy who knows even less refuses to do the same.”
— Ron Henzel
“well something seems to have gone off the rails” — Paul Duggan
“I’m still confused.” — Mark Horne
“I — and since BH is me, we. . .”
— James B. Jordan
“It shows us many, many things about the FV that the critics have been saying all along, and Jordan agrees.” — Pastor Lane Keister
“. . . the post above I think is overstated, rhetorically unhelpful, historically misguided and wrong. In short, I disagree. . .” — Douglas Wilson
“Jim’s statement is misleading and wrong, and I wish he would retract it.” — Douglas Wilson
“I didn’t say ‘recant’ . . . but rather ‘retract,’ which is what somebody should do with any mistake, whether 30 years old or not.” — Douglas Wilson
“This is what happens when a guy who knows just enough to be dangerous admits the truth, and a guy who knows even less refuses to do the same.”
— Ron Henzel
“well something seems to have gone off the rails” — Paul Duggan
“I’m still confused.” — Mark Horne
The YAHOO! Cam captured James Jordan’s reaction to the news that his beloved list went public:
“If you want to keep something secret, don’t put it on the internet.”
— Johannes Weslianus
“The most interesting aspect of the discussions has been the way they regard and describe their critics. I won’t try to describe the rhetoric. It’s better that you read it for yourself.”
— R. Scott Clark
— Johannes Weslianus
“The most interesting aspect of the discussions has been the way they regard and describe their critics. I won’t try to describe the rhetoric. It’s better that you read it for yourself.”
— R. Scott Clark
NEW WINE — IT'S POISON!
“Oh, it’s true enough: We depart from the whole Reformation tradition at certain pretty basic points. It’s no good pretending otherwise. I think the PCA is perfectly within its rights to say no to all BH types. We are NOT traditional presbyterians. The PCA suffers us within itself, but we are poison to traditional presbyterianism.” — James B. Jordan