From: “Dale Courtney”
Subject: Another Forwarded BH Post
BHren,
I wanted to alert you to yet another BH post that has been forwarded elsewhere and posted publicly.
The original post was from 29 May 2003:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bibhorizon/message/21452
The post (by Wilson) was just posted publicly over at
mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2005-January/013490.html
I don’t know where the leak is, but we need to make it stop.
pax,
Dale
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 21:58:35 +0900
From: “Ralph A. Smith”
Subject: Another Forwarded BH Post
Someone should write to the man who posted the man who posted Doug’s email and explain to him that BH is not a “semi-public” (his words in the link below) list but a private list and that we would like to know how he got ahold of the email.
Ralph
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 13:17:13 +0000
From: “Frank D’Agostino”
Subject: Another Forwarded BH Post
The guy who posted it is up in Moscow. His email is: vision2020@moscow.com
Is it possible that Douglas Jones gave him permission to post this material since he’s the author?
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 05:24:07 -0800
From: “Dale Courtney”
Subject: Another Forwarded BH Post
Frank,
You misread the Vision2020 posting (easy to do). That Vision2020@moscow.com is the listserv email address.
He did also quote Jones, but that was from a Credenda/Agenda article.
His quote of Wilson was directly from a BH post:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bibhorizon/message/21452
Pax,
Dale
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 09:21:10 -0600
From: “Jonathan Barlow”
Subject: Another Forwarded BH Post
Great, now, if you’re a member of the BH list, you’re a racist because the one post that has been released is from Douglas Wilson where he stupidly goes after MLK.
I’m as mad that Wilson writes these kinds of things as I am that the post was made public.
— Jonathan
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 09:57:52 -0600
From: “James B. Jordan”
Subject: Another Forwarded BH Post
At 09:21 AM 1/19/2005, you wrote:
Great, now, if you’re a member of the BH list, you’re a racist because the one post that has been released is from Douglas Wilson where he stupidly goes after MLK.
I’m as mad that Wilson writes these kinds of things as I am that the post was made public.
— Jonathan
Seems to me Wilson’s point was anti-racist. MLK was a pretty sorry specimen of humanity, and while I’m not interested in crusading to make that point, I see no reason why Wilson or anyone else cannot comment on it. As a person, MLK was trash and he’s in hell.
JBJ
James B. Jordan
Director, Biblical Horizons
Box 1096
Niceville, FL 32578
http://www.biblicalhorizons.com
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 10:54:25 -0600
From: “Steve Wilkins”
Subject: Another Forwarded BH Post
Great, now, if you’re a member of the BH list, you’re a racist because the one post that has been released is from Douglas Wilson where he stupidly goes after MLK.
I’m as mad that Wilson writes these kinds of things as I am that the post was made public.
— Jonathan
well, let’s remember that this was not a public statement. It was posted on a private list during a discussion (if I remember correctly) about the lives of those who are ordained to the ministerial office. But aside from that, would you be so offended if these comments were made about another minister who was a proven adulterer, philanderer, and embraced heterodoxy? Racism is not the issue here (in fact the whole point of Doug’s comment was to expose the implicit racism of double standards). Support for justice and fair and equal treatment before the law does not demand that we praise and honor men whose lives openly denied and contradicted the gospel they professed to believe. Indeed, for the sake of righteousness and the integrity of the cause, it seems to me that we are bound to denouce such hypocrisy.
sw
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 11:12:41 -0600
From: “Jonathan Barlow”
Subject: Another Forwarded BH Post
Well, I’m not saying that what Wilson is saying is racist. But I am saying that it is simply not possible at this point in history to go after Pastor Martin King. There is now only Martin Luther King, Jr. — friend of George Washington, who never told a lie you’ll remember, and of John Bunyan and his ox Blue.
I also don’t think that we are bound to denounce anything without qualification. Wilson feels bound to engage in everything. He is the Renaissance inveigher. I think sometimes we’re bound to hold our denunciations for a larger goal. Let the dead bury their own dead from time to time.
I’ll admit that I harbor some degree of bitterness that Wilson has ruined his witness in so many quarters, and I’m trying to work on it. I’ll admit that I’m still a little bit mystified that you and he would publish (and republish) a book about slavery in this day and age. I respect you a great deal, and I hate my own diarrhea of the mouth as much or more than I dislike Wilson’s. And I have simultaneous revulsion and fascination with a trouble-maker like Wilson. I’m probably also overreacting to my own college days when I was the Douglas Wilson of Mississippi State University complete with my own newsletter, inflammatory newspaper column, and radio debates with homosexuals. So with all those plank-eyed qualifications, I don’t mean to offend, but I just think Wilson hurts us all with the things he does, the fights he picks, and the ways that he fights them.
— Jonathan
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 09:34:13 -0800
From: “Dale Courtney”
Subject: Another Forwarded BH Post
Jonathan,
As a point of clarification — that original letter to the editor was from 1990 — that’s 15 years ago — when Idaho was debating making MLK a holiday in Idaho. There was a public discussion of the merits of doing so.
Second, the email that was posted publicly was from a private list. If things cannot be said here, then they cannot be said.
Third, I wonder how often we Christians have been cowed down to say anything publicly for fear of it being politically incorrect. Speaking out against homosexuality as a sin and homosexual marriage is coming, you know. . .
pax,
Dale
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 12:36:48 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
From: Scott Linn
Subject: Another Forwarded BH Post
Greetings,
when I was the Douglas Wilson of Mississippi State University
I burned out on Theonomy-L. Is there something about Presbyterianism (Machen’s warrior children) that seems to breed conflict? Now that I’m in the AMiA, I don’t know how to react to people who aren’t in apologetics mode all the time — but then, maybe I’m still new enough that I haven’t seen it yet. The change is nice, though.
Scott Linn
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 11:51:19 -0600
From: “James B. Jordan”
Subject: Another Forwarded BH Post
This is an old post. In fact, it is six months before we had a leaker that we dealt with in early 2004. I suspect it’s the same leaker and this is an olde leak. I suspect this. But I’m going to check the list.
JBJ
James B. Jordan
Director, Biblical Horizons
Box 1096
Niceville, FL 32578
http://www.biblicalhorizons.com
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 12:32:44 -0600
From: “Steve Wilkins”
Subject: Another Forwarded BH Post
I also don’t think that we are bound to denounce anything without qualification. Wilson feels bound to engage in everything. He is the Renaissance inveigher. I think sometimes we’re bound to hold our denunciations for a larger goal. Let the dead bury their own dead from time to time.
of course and I agree. We are not “bound to denouce” all things and I should not have said that. There is a time and place for all things. What I guess I mean is that we are not bound to uphold the deceptions and defend the hypocrisies that abound all around us. MLK is only one example of this.
I’ll admit that I harbor some degree of bitterness that Wilson has ruined his witness in so many quarters, and I’m trying to work on it.
no need for you to be bitter about any of this. You’re free to disagree and distance yourself from me or Doug or anyone else when we do and say things that you would not, but I see no need for bitterness. We make terrible mistakes sometimes and unintentionally cause grief for our brothers and I’m very sorry for it, but all I can do is confess my sins and learn from them and go forward — praying that my brothers will bear with me in love and help me as graciously as they are able and that in the process, I’ll learn to be a better help to them and not a hindrance.
I need lots of help but that means you have to bear with my bad judgments and thoughtlessness and plain ole ignorance. I’m sorry about this and I wish it wasn’t so, but that’s the way it is. But if you are willing to bear with
me, we’ll all be better for it eventually.
So, don’t let my mistakes make you bitter. Rebuke me, help me, instruct me, and try to be patient with me, but being bitter against me is not the solution. We must hang together or . . . . well you know the rest.
sw
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 10:37:46 -0800
From: Daniel Dillard
Subject: Another Forwarded BH Post
Tell us more about this peaceful existence you have found, Scott! Is it in the remote regions of Peru, or something?
(Seriously, I’d like to know more, because I have wondered whether everyone else is fighting all the time, or if it’s just the “warrior children” syndrome).
Blessings,
Dan Dillard
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 18:05:43 -0000
From: “garver”
Subject: Another Forwarded BH Post
Jonathan Barlow wrote:
So with all those plank-eyed qualifications, I don’t mean to offend, but I just think Wilson hurts us all with the things he does, the fights he picks, and the ways that he fights them.
I, for one, couldn’t agree more.
Joel
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 11:49:09 -0700
From: “Tim Gallant”
Subject: Another Forwarded BH Post
Jonathan Barlow wrote:
So with all those plank-eyed qualifications, I don’t mean to offend, but I just think Wilson hurts us all with the things he does, the fights he picks, and the ways that he fights them.I, for one, couldn’t agree more.
joel
And I for one — occasionally agree. But not this time. Nope.
tim
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 14:04:18 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
From: Scott Linn
Subject: Another Forwarded BH Post
Greetings,
Tell us more about this peaceful existence you have found, Scott! Is it in the remote regions of Peru, or something?
It’s mostly cause we sing Kum Bay Yah every Sunday.
(Seriously, I’d like to know more, because I have wondered whether everyone else is fighting all the time, or if it’s just the “warrior children” syndrome).
This congregation is older, cradel episcopalians that left ECUSA because of the homosexual bishop, etc. They are charismatic and not too theological. But, they are really great people and the priest is awesome. He is trying to build them up from the basics. We have weekly communion including paedocommunion. They treat the Holy Spirit as real and powerfully in their lives. Their vocabulary is new to me, but doesn’t scare me like that of the guys who went (literally) head over heels for the Laughing Revival when it came through town. We had an assistant priest who was a recent grad of Reformed Seminary — Orlando, so they are not opposed to reformed theology. (The assistant is off to start a mission church in SC.)
Scott Linn
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 11:07:37 -0800
From: “Dave Hatcher”
Subject: Another Forwarded BH Post
Being a pastor in the CREC, I find myself defending attacks against Wilson and Wilkins on an almost daily basis. And the attacks are often incredibly cruel and ridiculous if you know these men (which most of you do). It is amazing that most of the attacks are also coming from within Christian and reformed circles.
But I am pleased to stand with them and proud to call them my friends and mentors — as I am to call many others of you on this list that I know.
There is a good fight to be fought.
Dave Hatcher
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 11:09:32 -0800
From: Daniel Dillard
Subject: Another Forwarded BH Post
Thanks, Scott. As you get more familiar with wider circles in the denomination it would be good to get updates! Refugees in Calvin’s time went to Geneva.
Blessings,
Dan Dillard
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 13:11:55 -0600
From: “Gary L. Young”
Subject: Another Forwarded BH Post
Steve:
Well put. Good advice for us all.
And if Doug is still involved in this list, I would suggest that we stop referring to him in the 3rd person.
Gary Young
Lincoln, Nebraska
Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 19:18:00 -0500
From: pduggan
Subject: Another Forwarded BH Post
So with all those plank-eyed qualifications, I don’t mean to offend, but I just think Wilson hurts us all with the things he does, the fights he picks, and the ways that he fights them.I, for one, couldn’t agree more.
joelAnd I for one — occasionally agree. But not this time. Nope.
tim
I don’t care enough to agree
Paul
