Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 5:44 PM
Subject: a small victory in one presbytery
Hey, here’s some good news from Dale Smith, BH-oriented pastor of Colleyville PCA, North Texas Presbytery.
Todd HarrisFort Worth
Begin forwarded message:
From: Dale Smith
Date: January 14, 2005 5:14:22 PM CST
Subject: Fwd: My Examination By Presbytery
Dear Brothers ad Sisters,
As most of you know, as a result of allegations that have made against me in regard to my theology, Presbytery tasked the combined Theological Examining Committee and the Ministerial Relations committee plus Paul Settle to examine me.
We met today and I was overwhelmed that virtually every single one of the men on these two committees (including all the ruling elders who took time from their jobs) arranged to be at the meeting this morning. This represents a remarkable commitment to our Church, Presbytery and to me.
I looked forward to the meeting with eager anticipation and with absolutely no fear and apprehension, which is unusual for me as I am easily intimidated and do not think or speak well under pressure. I had a sense of freedom, largely I think because 1) I am fully convinced that there is nothing untoward or unconfessional in my views and 2) I believed going in that every one of these brothers is a man of integrity and would deal with me not only objectively but justly and graciously. That proved to be exactly the case. They were thorough and precise and I trust I answered with commensurate precision and clarity.
I received a phone call this evening from Paul Settle who informed me that the combined committees voted UNANIMOUSLY to report to Presbytery that my views are fully in accord with our doctrinal standards.
I humbly and gratefully give all praise and thanksgiving to God. Not only for this vindication but also for the remarkable devotion of my fellow presbyters to the pursuit of their calling as elders in Christ’s Church. There are so many Presbytery horror stories out there. Here are Presbyters and a Presbytery functioning as our our Lord intended biblical church government to function.
Praise God from whom all blessings flow!
In the bonds of the deep, deep love of Jesus,
Dale
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 21:49:59 -0600
From: “Rich Lusk”
Subject: A small victory in another presbytery
That’s great news for Dale.
Some more good news came out of Ohio presbytery. Bill Smith’s transfer exam was accepted. Bill has been pastoring in Sulphur, LA and has been called to a church in Louisville, KY. Sean Lucas and few other detractors were present, but there were also some staunch supporters. Bill can give the details. Tomorrow he will seek release from LA presbytery.
RL
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 10:12:09 -0600
From: Mark Horne
Subject: A small victory in another presbytery
I had heard reports that Sean might be moderating. Any evidence?
Mark
On Jan 14, 2005, at 9:49 PM, Rich Lusk wrote:
That’s great news for Dale.
Some more good news came out of Ohio presbytery. Bill Smith’s transfer exam was accepted. Bill has been pastoring in Sulphur, LA and has been called to a church in Louisville, KY. Sean Lucas and few other detractors were present, but there were also some staunch supporters. Bill can give the details. Tomorrow he will seek release from LA presbytery.
RL
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 22:12:46 -0600
From: Jeff Meyers
Subject: A small victory in another presbytery
On Jan 14, 2005, at 9:49 PM, Rich Lusk wrote:
Some more good news came out of Ohio presbytery. Bill Smith’s transfer exam was accepted. Bill has been pastoring in Sulphur, LA and has been called to a church in Louisville, KY. Sean Lucas and few other detractors were present, but there were also some staunch supporters. Bill can give the details. Tomorrow he will seek release from LA presbytery.
I’d love to know how Lucas behaved during the exam. Bill, if you get a chance, let me know. I had a long lunch with Lucas a few weeks ago and he told me that he overreacted when he wrote his review of PJL and other stuff on his blog. Among other things, he told me that he reads PJL’s blog regularly and not to find things to criticize, but to learn from him.
I guess I’m hoping that Sean behaved.
JJM
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 22:13:31 -0600
From: Jeff Meyers
Subject: A small victory in another presbytery
On Jan 15, 2005, at 10:12 AM, Mark Horne wrote:
I had heard reports that Sean might be moderating.
Moderating the presbytery or his views?
JJM
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 11:09:05 -0600
From: Mark Horne
Subject: A small victory in another presbytery
views
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 21:27:21 -0700
From: “Tim Gallant”
Subject: A small victory in another presbytery
I’d love to know how Lucas behaved during the exam. Bill, if you get a chance, let me know. I had a long lunch with Lucas a few weeks ago and he told me that he overreacted when he wrote his review of PJL and other stuff on his blog. Among other things, he told me that he reads PJL’s blog regularly and not to find things to criticize, but to learn from him.
Wow, that sounds encouraging. I hope we begin to see more of this, obviously.
BTW, Lucas is one of the “commenders” on the back cover of Waters’s book.
tim
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 23:17:12 -0600
From: “WAYNE LARSON”
Subject: A small victory in another presbytery
That’s great news! The guy who is chairing the C&C Committee is a friend of mine. Chris is a good man. He’s definitely leaning in the Horton/Kline direction, but he is also a pretty level headed guy — not a fighter. I talked to my former pastor from Indianapolis a few weeks ago regarding this issue. We had a good conversation. He said that Chris was getting pressure from some to see this whole thing go down in flames right out of the gate, but I think all that pressure was beginning to backfire. My sense was that Chris didn’t at all like what guys were saying and trying to do before Bill even had a chance to say anything. Anyway, I’m glad to see Bill get through. There are some good guys in the Presbytery.
wl,
Former member of the Great Lakes Presbytery from whence Ohio Valley Presbytery sprang.
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 05:35:56 -0000
From: “garver”
Subject: A small victory in another presbytery
Wayne wrote:
He said that Chris was getting pressure from some to see this whole thing go down in flames right out of the gate, but I think all that pressure was beginning to backfire. My sense was that Chris didn’t at all like what guys were saying and trying to do before Bill even had a chance to say anything.
I get the sense that a number of men in our Presbyteries don’t care to be told how they should decide issues, especially before they have a change to give a fair hearing to those involved — and particularly so when those involved are ministers they know and like or men in good standing in other Presbyteries.
There are exceptions to this, I think, as Rich Lusk recently experienced. But outside those few pockets, I’m pretty confident level heads will prevail.
joel
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 00:00:22 -0600
From: “Rich Lusk”
Subject: Re: Re: a small victory in another presbytery
But outside those few pockets, I’m pretty confident level heads will prevail.
joel
Right. I’ve been saying since I met with Evangel’s committee that what happened to me was not going to become the norm; it didn’t represent a trend. Evangel is a completely unbalanced presbytery in that respect, tipping heavily in a presby-baptistic (anti-paedocommunion, pro-age-of-accountability) direction. Most PCA presbyteries have more theologically competent men who can see what’s going on.
Plus, I now know for certain that Lig Duncan played a pretty critical role in what happened. I don’t think he has the same pull everywhere. Lig won the battle (over me), but he’ll lose the war. Victory is already in sight.
If someone was hoping Evangel would make a precedent out of me, they committed a major startegic blunder when the committee refused to give an explanation as to why they didn’t recommend me to presbytery.
After discussing things with several seminary profs at the Monroe conference, I’m more hopeful than ever for these issues in the PCA. Once a certain WTS-Philly prof told me the faculty comtemplated revoking Andy Webb’s degree because he’s such a constant source of embarassment, I concluded we had won. It’s only a matter of time before this becomes evident. I think the floodgates will eventually open. I’m sure that, e.g., Sean Lucas will have to calm down in order to function on the Covenant faculty, if he hasn’t already. Too many prominent and well respected men have already adopted NTW-ish, high ecclesial/sacramental views. Our antagonists cannot stem the tide without ripping the denomination to shreds (which will not happen). The brittle form of Calvinism espoused by guys like Duncan and Webb is breaking up; it has no future.
RL
From: “Rich Lusk”
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 1:00 AM
Subject: a small victory in another presbytery
But outside those few pockets, I’m pretty confident level heads will prevail.
joel
Right. I’ve been saying since I met with Evangel’s committee that what happened to me was not going to become the norm; it didn’t represent a trend. Evangel is a completely unbalanced presbytery in that respect, tipping heavily in a presby-baptistic (anti-paedocommunion, pro-age-of-accountability) direction. Most PCA presbyteries have more theologically competent men who can see what’s going on.
Plus, I now know for certain that Lig Duncan played a pretty critical role in what happened. I don’t think he has the same pull everywhere. Lig won the battle (over me), but he’ll lose the war. Victory is already in sight.
If someone was hoping Evangel would make a precedent out of me, they committed a major startegic blunder when the committee refused to give an explanation as to why they didn’t recommend me to presbytery.
After discussing things with several seminary profs at the Monroe conference, I’m more hopeful than ever for these issues in the PCA. Once a certain WTS-Philly prof told me the faculty comtemplated revoking Andy Webb’s degree because he’s such a constant source of embarassment, I concluded we had won. It’s only a matter of time before this becomes evident. I think the floodgates will eventually open. I’m sure that, e.g., Sean Lucas will have to calm down in order to function on the Covenant faculty, if he hasn’t already. Too many prominent and well respected men have already adopted NTW-ish, high ecclesial/sacramental views. Our antagonists cannot stem the tide without ripping the denomination to shreds (which will not happen). The brittle form of Calvinism espoused by guys like Duncan and Webb is breaking up; it has no future.
RL
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 08:13:43 -0500
From: “Brian D. Nolder”
Subject: Re: Re: a small victory in another presbytery
I wonder if the TRs in the OPC will say, “Boy, one more sign that the PCA is going liberal!” :)
This is good to hear. If you guys get a hold of positive NTW reports from presbyteries, I would apreciate you sending them to me so that I can forward them to the OPC’s Committee on Justification.
BDN
