From: William Smith
Subject: Report from Ohio Valley
I see that Rich told y’all the good news about my transfer to OVP. For those of you who knew that it was coming and prayed, thank you. I didn’t realize that Chris Harper was being pressured. (Glad I didn’t know it.) Chris did a superior job. I could tell he had heard a lot of stuff — stuff that only people in our presbytery would know. But he was quite judicious.
I know several of you are wondering how Sean L. acted. He had a few questions concerning baptism. His concern was about baptism and union with Christ. I simply answered the question by saying something to the effect that the visible Church is the body of Christ (this, of course, is stated explicitly in our Preliminary Principles in the BCO) and as much as Christ is associated with the visible church, baptism unites us with Christ. Then I went through the simple formula that before a person is baptized he is not a member of the church. Then after a person is baptized he is a member of the church. I know it seems rather elementary, but it shut down the questioning. Sean did try to twist something I said one time, but I corrected him on it and answered his question.
I could tell that some people in presbytery had obviously been coached to ask me particular questions. For instance, in the examinations cmte, one man simply asked me, “What do you think about union with Christ?” I replied, “I’m for it!” Another man on the floor of presbytery asked me if the sacraments were means of sanctification or salvation. I told him that I believed sanctification was a part of salvation and that the sacraments are effectual means of salvation according to our Confession. One Covenant Seminary professor (Erswine) couldn’t believe that I thought infants could be regenerated in baptism. I quoted the Confession to him at this point. He seemed a bit embarrassed. I really thought that many guys would bombard me with Confessional language. But they didn’t even seem familiar with it.
Some were also trying to pin me on pc. They wanted to know how I interpreted 1 Cor 11. I also “threw in” some stuff about mentally incapacitated Christians. Some looked as if they had never thought of it before.
When I left the room for the discussion, some maneuvers were attempted. They failed. A couple of guys really stuck their necks out for me. One such man is Bobby Beatty. He is a good man who pastors in Lexington, KY. He had a statement prepared in which he quoted David Wright (from Lig’s book), and he even brought in our own Joel Garver. Chuck Hickey from Church of the Covenant (?) in Cincinnati made it known where he stood. There are some good men in OVP.
At the end of the day there was only one negative vote against me — and I don’t think it was Sean L.
Now, the church I am leaving needs a pastor. I have a few names to pass on to the church, but I would certainly like a few more. The church has come a long way and is extremely BH friendly. We have weekly communion (with wine!), both RE’s are pc, liturgical, white robe for preaching, collar as regular attire, church year observance (with paraments), etc. It is a good place to pastor — though some of you might have to get accustomed to South LA culture. Anyway, email me if you or someone you know might be interested.
I have probably said enough. I have been gone since Wednesday. I’m tired and going to bed. Thanks so much for those of you who prayed.
Bill
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 21:20:10 -0600
From: Jeff Meyers
Subject: Report from Ohio Valley
On Jan 15, 2005, at 9:08 PM, William Smith wrote:
I see that Rich told y’all the good news about my transfer to OVP.
Thanks for the report, Bill. I sent you a private note just a few minutes ago! But you don’t need to answer that now.
Knowing that this list is private (does everyone remember their holy vows!), I will ask you all to please pray for me and for Mark Horne. Some of you know already that our church has called Mark to be our Asst. Pastor. He will go before the Presbytery this Tuesday (Jan. 18th) afternoon. The docket has already been sent out so it is now public. But I would ask you all to keep it to yourself. Just because members of the MO Presbytery know doesn’t mean that the rest of TRville knows. I don’t want them to be calling their friends (and enemies) in our presbytery before the meeting.
I’ve had phone conversations with some who think it’s a bad idea to bring Mark in at this time (before our committee reports), but this is outrageous. Mark and I met with one presbyter yesterday for lunch and I can tell you that his arguments were weak, weak, weak. I think he realized as much, but is under enormous political pressure.
I will need prayer for wisdom and persuasive, winsome words. I begin my two-year term as moderator this meeting. That will mean I’ll have to give up the chair during the debate. Please, please pray that level heads prevail.
Thanks!
JJM
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 21:27:33 -0600
From: “WAYNE LARSON”
Subject: Re: Report from Ohio Valley
On Jan 15, 2005, at 9:08 PM, William Smith wrote:
I simply answered the question by saying something to the effect that the visible Church is the body of Christ (this, of course, is stated explicitly in our Preliminary Principles in the BCO) and as much as Christ is associated with the visible church, baptism unites us with Christ.
This seems like a great way to answer this question. Congratulations, Bill!!!
wl
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 17:44:55 -0500
From: James B. Jordan
Subject: Re: Report from Ohio Valley
I could tell that some people in presbytery had obviously been coached to ask me particular questions. For instance, in the examinations cmte, one man simply asked me, What do you think about union with Christ? I replied, I’m for it!
We need some more ex-Southern Baptists on our side!
JBJ
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 23:45:43 -0600
From: “Rich Lusk”
Subject: Re: Report from Ohio Valley
On Jan 15, 2005, at 9:08 PM, William Smith wrote:
I simply answered the question by saying something to the effect that the visible Church is the body of Christ (this, of course, is stated explicitly in our Preliminary Principles in the BCO) and as much as Christ is associated with the visible church, baptism unites us with Christ.
Ha!! I used essentially the same argument from the BCO’s preliminary principles (visible church = body of Christ). Frank Barker was not impressed.
Bill, I’m not sure if the widespread problem is simply ignorance of the confessional documents or reading the documents through a highly Americanized theological grid. Either way the result is the same, of course.
RL
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 15:54:28 -0700
From: “John Barach”
Subject: Report from Ohio Valley
Bill writes:
I see that Rich told y’all the good news about my transfer to OVP.
On the other hand, I see this on the BB Warfield list;
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bbwarfield/message/19416
It seems that one of your guys in the new congregation is (a) on the Warpath list, which in itself would freak me out, and (b) thinks that you hold the same position he does, namely, that you’re concerned with a lot of the “FV” stuff, perhaps including Lusk’s stuff.
John
. . . who now has to do penance for surfing the theological porn that is the Warfield list.
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 18:12:00 -0600 (GMT-06:00)
From: William Smith
Subject: Report from Ohio Valley
Bruce is a good man. He is not really *up* on all the issues. They know of all my associations. I will have to warn him to stay off the theological porn site.
Bill
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 23:42:52 -0000
From: “garver”
Subject: Report from Ohio Valley
John Barach wrote:
On the other hand, I see this on the BB Warfield list;
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bbwarfield/message/19416
I was forwarded a bit of that thread by a friend, since my name came up in it as well.
Andy Webb has a bad habit of attributing all kinds of things to people who believe no such thing.
Either that or I’ve perfected the art of believing six impossible things before breakfast.
joel
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 11:04:52 -0600
From: burke
Subject: Report from Ohio Valley
Now, the church I am leaving needs a pastor. I have a few names to pass on to the church, but I would certainly like a few more. The church has come a long way and is extremely BH friendly. We have weekly communion (with wine!), both RE’s are pc, liturgical, white robe for preaching, collar as regular attire, church year observance (with paraments), etc. It is a good place to pastor — though some of you might have to get accustomed to South LA culture. Anyway, email me if you or someone you know might be interested.
I have probably said enough. I have been gone since Wednesday. I’m tired and going to bed. Thanks so much for those of you who prayed.
Bill
So, Bill, why are you leaving that church?
Burke
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 09:48:34 -0800 (PST)
From: William Smith
Subject: Report from Ohio Valley
Well, I will be able to support my family better. (I have six children — I know that is a small family on this list.) But I will also have the opportunity to further my education; something that I have wanted to do now for about 11 years. The church in L’ville also has needs that my gifts and experience seem to fit.
The church I am presently pastoring has all the standard church problems, but nothing really major (at this time). It is a good church. I am not leaving because there are problems.
Bill
