Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 07:52:11 -0600
From: Jonathan Barlow
Subject: Beeson question
Hi Guys,
What do you know about this guy:
J. Alan Carter
B.S., Mississippi State University; M.Div., M.C.E., Reformed Theological Seminary; M.A., Western Kentucky University; Ph.D., Notre Dame University. Pastor, Faith Presbyterian Church, Birmingham.
He’s on the staff at Beeson Divinity School in Birmingham. Just curious if he would be someone I could talk to about the seminary there given that he’s PCA.
Thanks,
Jonathan
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 09:39:30 EST
From: Leithart@aol.com
Subject: Beeson question
Jonathan,
Alan is generally a good guy, one of the more theologically astute men in the Presbytery and one of the guys I had the most rapport with when I was in Evangel Presbytery. He helped me a lot when I was having trouble getting into the Presbytery. But that was 15 years ago, and more recently he was one of the leaders in the opposition to Rich L. I’m sure Rich has an opinion.
Peter
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 18:02:22 -0000
From: “Jon Amos”
Subject: Beeson question
Jonathan,
I’m sure you know this, but Frank Thielman is Presbyterian Professor of Divinity at Beeson, and he’s in the PCA, too.
jon
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 12:56:04 -0600
From: Jeff Meyers
Subject: Beeson question
I know Alan from my days in Evangel Presbytery. He’s the pastor at Faith Presbyterian church in Birmingham. Alan’s a nice guy, but he is a Joey Pipa/Morton Smith kind of TR. He was up here a few years ago interviewing for the job at CTS that Mike Williams eventually got. He and I are still on friendly terms, so yes, he would be a good man to contact about a position at the seminary.
JJM
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 15:06:28 -0500
From: “Brian D. Nolder”
Subject: Beeson question
Jon:
I believe Thielman is ARP, not PCA.
BDN
Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 21:37:45 -0000
From: “Jon Amos”
Subject: Beeson question
Did he transfer recently? The Beeson faculty page still says he’s PCA.
http://tinyurl.com/5rqxr
jon
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 17:34:03 -0500
From: “Brian D. Nolder”
Subject: Beeson question
Jon:
I might be wrong. I think he was ARP when he candidated at WTS in 1996.
BDN
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 16:55:51 -0600
From: “Rich Lusk”
Subject: Beeson question
I’ve known Alan for 10+ years and know a lot of people in his church pretty well. When I’d pass through town to see family, I used to worship at his Faith Pres and I always enjoyed his preaching, even if it was a bit dry. He’d come down and preach at RUF on occasion when I was at Auburn. And when I was in college, I spoke at their church’s youth retreats. Thye even talked to me about working there as youth director after I graduated college. (Funny, they also once talked to Steve Wilkins about pastoring their church — before Alan came!)
Alan probably more than anyone else influenced me to pursue philosophy in graduate school. “That’s where the thinkers are — much more so than in the theology departments,” was what he told me. Seems strange to reflect back on that quotation now.
Alan used to be very TR, at least by Evangel presbytery standards. He would really look up to the likes of Lig Duncan, Duncan Rankin, Morton Smith, and Joey Pipa. He’s got a strong streak of old school Southern Presbyterianism in his theology. In recent years that’s changed quite a bit. For example, he’s had officer training classes at his church read Randy Pope’s book on ministry. It’s not a bad book at all — I learned quite a bit from it myself — but it certainly represents a shift in Alan’s thinking.
To give you some idea of what he’s like, he rejected a very fine candidate for deacon at his church a couple years back because the guy took an exception for paedocommunion. Why that would hinder a man from serving on the diaconate is beyond me. His church is in the midst of building project and they built a fellowship hall first, which they use also as a sanctuary. It looks like an office building. I’ve been inside as well, and I don’t think there’s a single Christian symbol on the premises. That’s just not Alan’s thing. I doubt the sanctuary will be any different when they build it. Alan is a true minimalist.
Alan did oppose me in presbytery committee, whbich I know was hard for hiom to do because he likes me as a person. But he’s clearly hardened his position on some things through the years. I think he’s very concerned with “where we’re going.” His big issue with me was infant faith (you can check the archives for my posted report on that whole ordeal and get more info on what he said and asked). I found that odd for a number of reasons, but Alan does have a bit of rationalism in his theology. For example, his words before the Lord’s Supper are very anti-“real presence.” He’s a Zwinglian memorialist, best I can tell. At a baptism at his church one time, he quoted a section out of Tim G.’s paedocommbook and called it “heresy.” I’m not altogether sure I understand his views, but I think his main fear is that we’re telling covenant children they don’t need to be converted and that feeds presumption — or soemthing like that.
Alan is highly regarded as a “theologian” in the presbytery, but from what I can tell he doesn’t get to do all that much reading these days. I think some of his hardness towards our kind of theology might come from young men in his congregation who have raised the issue. I know a few them gave him things I had written, knowing he and I had a prior relationship, thinking that he might be kindly disposed towards it for that reaosn, but it hasn’t worked out that way. I don’t these younger men caused any major headaches for Alan by being divisive or whatever — but I do think they managed to leave a bad taste in Alan’s mouth.
All that aside, if you’re thinking about applying for to Beeson for further study or a job, by all means get in touch with Alan. He’s a great guy and could probably help you out. Just don’t get into the controversial issues if possible. And don’t tell him you know me until after you’ve signed a contract for the job.
Frank Thielman is also worth talking to. He transferred into Evangel presbytery a few years back and now attends a PCA church in B’ham. I had a very nice conversation with him prior to meeting with the commmittee from Evangel, and I think that if he had been in the room during my exam everything would’ve worked out fine. Unfortunately, he doesn’t get too involved in things going on at the presbytery level. I say it’s unfortunate because the presbytery could really benefit from his wider knowledge of contemporary theological work and issues, and also from his view of what it means to subscribe to the confession of faith.
Hope that helps.
By the way, the church I pastor, Reformed Heritage Presbyterian, voted to change its name today. We are now Trinity Presbyterian Church. The congregation also voted to take its first step towards affiliation with the CREC.
Blessings,
RL
Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 16:58:35 -0600
From: “Rich Lusk”
Subject: Beeson question
Frank tranferred INTO the PCA a few yrs back. He used to be ARP.
RL
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— Johannes Weslianus
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